Serious question: How do we get Trump impeached?
Win back the House in 2018.
Trying to empathize with Trump voters has fucked me up, Coke! What the fuck!
Stop it. You’re trying to take a high road that doesn’t exist. To engage with them at all is to walk the low road, so either accept your surroundings or go find something else to do with your time.
Aren’t you exactly the kind of highly educated professional, white, liberal to which the Democratic party has catered for decades and which has resulted in their political defeat all over the country?
The word you’re looking for is elite, and yes, I’m elite as fuck. The election didn’t change that. Nothing can. Win or lose, I’ll always be elite, and deep down, you’ll always feel inferior. It’s not my fault that you feel inferior, but you do, and that’s why you troll the internet loathing people like me, because you loathe yourself so much more.
Please tell me I won’t get caught in the middle of a war if I go to teach English in South Korea?
Don’t worry. If war comes, it will likely be a nuclear first strike from the North, so you won’t see it coming and you won’t feel a thing.
You talk a lot about cheating in relationships. What do you think of cheating in the academic realm? Specifically, cheating on exams. A lot of people around me do it in college, and they all get away with it.
There’s a difference between cheating and breaking the rules. Cheating involves a breach of your integrity, but if you had no say in the setting of the rules, if they’re arbitrary or serve other interests at the expense of your own, or if you never agreed to follow the rules in the first place, then breaking them isn’t necessarily a breach of your integrity. Academic honor codes can be like that. They exist for the benefit of the institution, not you. That’s why I’m neutral when it comes to breaking the rules in an academic setting. I neither condone it nor condemn it. Feel free to fuck the system, but recognize that the system fucks back, and if you get caught, then you absolutely deserve to be punished, and you don’t get to cry about it.
I can only come (both by myself and with my boyfriend of 3 years) by thinking of getting fucked by my professor. Insight or advice?
Do you have romantic feelings or sexual thoughts for your professor outside of moments when you’re trying to orgasm? If presented with an opportunity, would you actually fuck him? In other words, is this phenomenon part of a larger crush, or is it more of a sexual fixation? Be honest with your answers. If you have feelings for your professor, admit it and then deal with that shit. If it’s just a fixation, try making it more and more abstract until you get up the courage to role play with your boyfriend.
Is it better to break up and perhaps never find love again or to stay in a relationship you don’t enjoy anymore?
This is a false dichotomy created by the weakest part of you, so I won’t dignify it with an answer except to say that you won’t make the right decision as long as you’re motivated by fear and regret.
I’m dating a guy who has a fondness for inspirational quotes. Not even ones that strike me as particularly insightful; really trite bullshit. Why does this bother me so much?
Because it’s evidence that he’s an idiot.
Have just spoken to my choice artist and, next week I’m booking in to have “Stay Wild” tattooed across my knuckles. Thank you for everything.
Fuck yeah. You gotta send me a pic.
107 thoughts on “On fun-sized advice”
Hey, yay I’m first!
So a few comments:
1) North Korea, despite it’s glorious leader, has no chance of producing anything even near to the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombings. And that is terrible. You won’t die in the blast, you will die from the inside, each cell burning and rotting inside you.
2) Break up or don’t break up. That’s the choice you’re making, stop making it about love. Relationships are about support and companionship (and I swear you’ll notice the difference post breakup, but never forget, nothing is irreversible).
3) Don’t fucking cheat you asshole, unless of course the consensus is for everyone to cheat.
4) CQ passes for white and even makes a good blonde when tanned (I could never go blond even at my wintery palest). Also she’s obviously part of the small percent of the world population to be able to regularly travel. But fuck off with your elite bullshit. This is not how capitalism and political populism works.
In a lot of prestigious academias cheating is wide spread at best, a deeply rooted tradition at worst.
I would certainly not consider someone who cheats on a nation-wide exam, where only the high-achieving and/or richest participating students are given insight on the content of said exam, an asshole.
The consensus isn’t always to cheat of course, but there will always be cheaters (taking ADHD medication for schoolwork is still cheating), and there will always be people who buy their way to academic success. I don’t condone cheating, I have never cheated in school, but I’m not gonna pretend like I’m offended by it when the school system is such a mess from start to finish.
“taking ADHD medication for schoolwork is still cheating”
Um, how is that cheating?
I’m assuming you’re not referring to people who actually have ADHD, so I guess this is about taking stimulants to be able to combat tiredness and focus better.
So . . . is there some rule forbidding stimulant use while engaged in academic endeavors? Because if so, then you’re going to have to include everyone who has ever gone through a pot of coffee or a 2-liter Mountain Dew at 3am trying to finish a research paper or cram for an exam, which is basically everyone.
Stimulants don’t make you smarter. They don’t make you psychic so you can figure out the questions on the exam ahead of time. This isn’t like an athlete taking steroids. What’s the unfair advantage, exactly?
With some ADHD meds you’re going to do a 8 hour worth of work in 4 hours, without pause, and with better recollection of what you worked on later. And if you take some right before your exam you’re gonna be way closer to 100% of your mental capacity. That’s very much like an athlete using steroids. They don’t make you more intelligent, they make you more focused than most people could ever be. Which is similar when it comes down to how you’ll succeed academically.
Yeah, but the knowledge isn’t going to manifest itself out of thin air. You’ll still need to do the readings, organize your thoughts and structure your arguments the same you would if you were operating drug-free.
Everyone has different ethical barometers, but I definitely wouldn’t call it cheating.
I guess if you think of cheating as being inherently awful and of this as not you would not consider it cheating because of the value dissonance, but things only work like that in our little heads now don’t they.
I don’t think of cheating or drug use as inherently anything. No need to assign arbitrary value judgments to generalities that share no correlation with the situational reality.
Okay… I mean you have nothing to do with this conservation but you speak like you do, but okay…
Yeah, Brian, how dare you come in and offer your opinion as if this were a public forum or something!
I said that because I wasn’t sure if they also were Missy or nah, but thanks for the cheap sarcasm.
Who cares if Brian and Missy are the same person? Address what they’re saying.
Also this is Brian.
I care, because if you carry your conversations as if everyone involved or not was interchangeable, you’re a cult leader or a troll, you troll.
Honestly, I though your advice was excellent, Nona.
“Don’t fucking cheat, you asshole.”
Words to live by. Good advice that applies to multiple situations.
Also, I like the point about relationships being for companionship and support. People get so caught up in the idea of relationships being love being that initial chemical attraction. Not the same at all.
Then again, I’m off relationships. Too much of a time sink.
What do you mean relationship are not about love? You say that if you had support and companionship but no love, you’d be happy in that relationship?
I think you are confusing love and emotional intimacy.
Let’s put it this way : would you prefer maintaining a romantic relationship with no support or companionship or a non-romantic sexual relationship with intimacy and mutual understanding ?
You can’t live on love and fresh air.
Relationships that count go deeper that the popular concept or personal feeling of romantic love.
You can’t choose like that. If a supportive, mature, well-matched, emotionally intimate relationship has platonic rather than romantic undertones, eventually it’s going wear away at your sex life or other things. In a lot of ways, romantic love is a stupid emotion, it doesn’t correlate with some one being a good person or a good match for you, but if you don’t have that feeling in a relationship, it will wear down everything good about the relationship.
You can’t logic yourself out of a need for romantic attachment. And honestly, sometimes I wish things were different. The fact that we need our relationships to be so many things is why they fail. But I don’t know how you get out of that.
Some people are aromantic, they don’t need to logic themselves out of anything henny.
Ok. You get a cookie.
So here is the qualifier: If you need romantic attachment, you can’t logic yourself out of it, no matter how illogical it is.
That wasn’t my point and you know it.
Ha, I was first to comment once. Being a total nerd for Coke, I was like [downward elbow thrust] “yes!”
4) Wrong. Dead wrong. Fucking myth, bud.
Yeah, she’s white-passing and I don’t get the impression you hate her, but travel almost anywhere is easy to save for without bare minimum wage and good budgeting skills.
Make 2-4 bucks over minimum wage (depending on state and your living expenses?) Quit smoking. Stop buying packaged food. Walk places.
You’ll be amazed what you can afford every summer.
Also, if you’re the kind of dumb fuck who lives in an expensive city (NY, Toronto, Shibuya for fuck’s sake) and you never had a plan to make the appropriate income, then being broke with expensive taste is a contract you signed.
Now go travel.
Shibuya is not a city, it’s a part of Tokyo. But yes, in my experience as someone who makes not much over the minimum wage as a citizen of a 3rd world country, it is actually getting easier and cheaper to travel abroad thanks to the system evolving (low cost carriers; platforms allowing you to research, plan and book cheap accommodation in advance; more variety in the tourism industry and more competitive prices, etc.)
Travel now seems to be a more tiered thing in that a wider scope of people can afford travelling but at various levels of ease, luxury and safety. Myself and many people I know have visited several countries outside of our own through rigorous saving and careful planning. I don’t know enough about what the financial condition is like for people living in other parts of the world, but if you’re a US citizen and you’d like to travel and see other parts of the world, I’d think the currency exchange rate alone works in your favor.
Thank you! And I knew it was part of a larger municipality although I’m not sure exactly how Japanese districting works (or at least for Tokyo.)
Either way, I’m not moving there to complain I have no money for it. I’d rather stay close to home and have the cash to vacation there instead, hahaha.
Save up kids.
I agree with you. I lived off a graduate stipend for years and always managed to travel. I ate a lot of rice and beans and didn’t have a car, but in my twenties I could make it work, and I would do it all over again.
So to take vacations on a minimum wage you have to:
1) live an austere lifestyle
2) in a small town or rural landscape
3) and have time off.
That doesn’t leave off a lot of people, does it ?
4) and have no children to provide for
5) have no health conditions that require medication
6) have incredible luck and never get an injury, a car accident, an engine failure, a computer crash, a busted heater, a sudden layoff…
“travel almost anywhere is easy to save for without bare minimum wage and good budgeting skills.”
LOL. Oh, to be young, able-bodied, child-free, free of medical debt, not responsible for helping to support one’s aging parents, free of student loan debt, and living somewhere with affordable rent that doesn’t require a car (or to be able to afford a car that doesn’t need constant expensive repairs)…
Thank goodness they suffer from no major mental health issues. Saving is easy! Just be sure to not hate yourself or be addicted to anything, simpleton.
Every time I see the “it’s so easy” mentality trotted out, I wonder if anyone wonders how easy can be difficult for those who don’t have it easy. Or that their priorities even include travel.
I’ll grant everyone with a medical issue or life problem getting in the way that no, travel isn’t easy.
Still, you chose: your kids; your car; your living situation (or to keep living there instead of moving to a less exciting area which is affordable); etc. etc.
By the way, living somewhere other than a capital city or trendy neighborhood is not an austere lifestyle. Not living in the top 5 populated cities of your province/state doesn’t ALWAYS equate to living in rural landscape, though sometimes it will.
And finally, let’s go with the premise you literally cannot put aside 5k or 6k and sleep on some couches over the course of 1-2 years. Because that’s the meager savings it took me to go through France and Belgium. I didn’t say it was glamorous. Two years scrimping for eight months backpacking.
But we’ll go with the premise you can’t even do that:
Why is travel your choice of first-world privilege to shake a stick at? If you can’t afford a disposable 5k trip over two years, why the fuck are you having a kid or buying a car in an area you can’t afford to live in?
Forreal, no pity. You’re a dumbass. I didn’t say it was easy, or of I did, I’ll clarify.
Travel is easy if you’re not making other expensive decisions you could never afford but still feel entitled to.
Oh, so having kids on a minimum wage makes you an entitled dumbass.
Please take your bullshit eugenics and shove it up your ass.
‘Stay Wild’ tattoo girl – how old are you?
Who said it’s a girl?
If a long sleeve shirt doesn’t cover up your tattoos, you’ll lose out on jobs in the professional world. Guarantee it. Especially with something as fucking idiotic as “STAY WILD” across your knuckles. What are you Riff Raff?
Unless you’re an established artist, with a surplus in income and a whole different way of life, you better rethink your tattoo.
If you’re over 25yrs old you should know better. And Coquette, why would you endorse a shitty decision like that? Does it amplify your ego? Fuck off man, give ACTUAL advice. What dim, pathetic version of reality are you broadcasting from these days?
TLDR; if you arent inheriting a fortune, want a better paying job, future promotions, and care about the real possibility you might be supporting others humans during your lifetime, then do not tattoo your hands with dumb shit. seriously.
I’d hire someone with “stay wild” knuck tats on the spot. So, um… yea.
Of course. And what’s the annual income of this supposed hiree?
Also, can’t any asshole backing this tattoo “stay wild” without seeing it on their knuckles?
Btw this is coming from a person in their mid 20s who who still gets down on hallucinogens, and blissful uppers a handful of times per year. Has traveled to Europe. Doesn’t have a degree or subscribe to instituionalized bullshit (cool if you do, there are definitely practical uses). And would encourage anyone to chase their weirdest wildest dreams to the edge of the earth. Does that require knuckle tattoos? Or face tattoos? Nope, and never will.
I clear 50k a year despite no education because I play the game enough to avoid tarnishing myself to the point of getting trashbinned during a glance or first impression. I don’t make lifelong decisions that are lousy and hinder opportunity. Be sharp overall always.
Could you be more of a Gen X guy than that please ?
You sound like the kind of guy who dress too formally for his level in the company, urgh.
Nah dude. Maybe where you are, but younger companies are looking at technical skills, portfolios, and work history. I worked at a company where my superiors had teal hair, full sleeves of tattoos, and dropped an F-bomb every other word and managed and negotiated multi million dollar contracts. Of course this was a tech job in California, but the point is you’re painting the world with a broad brush that makes glaringly obvious how little of it you’ve actually seen, and projecting a future on someone about whom you know nothing.
Yeah dude. Of course new companies are looking for technical skills, portfolios and work history. How else would companies grow? Unlike your anecdotal input I’m offering a much larger spectrum. It’s no news to me that in Silicon Valley, if you’re good enough on a computer, you can walk into an interview tatted up like Lil Wayne wearing the actual suit Riddler wore from Batman Forever. F bombs, really? Business revolves around muttering, saying, shouting, “FUCK”—it’s part of the foundation in our global economy, normal behavior. I think it’s important to note that “sleeve tattoos” stop at the wrist, which means the person can effectively conceal the tattoos with a dress shirt or suit. As for the superior with teal hair, it’s very hip liberal California, I’m not shocked, but that really isn’t commonplace in the professional and corporate world. Tasteless tattoos and/or bright unnatural hair colors are usually eliminated entirely during the interviewing process.
Want to know where I’ve seen all the people with tattoos on their hands, neck and face? In the warehouse. Even then they’re in the minority, and even then they are on the fast track to nowhere in this environment. I’ll be the first to say successful people with tattoos like the aforementioned do exist. MAJORITY OF THE TIME they are either artists or entrepreneurs. Handfuls are surfing some rarefied wave. Probably sustained by the fact that they’re geniuses who don’t have to subscribe or compete in our everyday reality.
I’ve worked for companies in Forbes. Billions and billions of dollars in revenue. I’ve shook the hands of several CEOs, and not just old decrepit fucks, some have been early 40s. The professional worlds not about poorly placed tattoos. I wasn’t introduced to a single person in Europe with exposed tattoos. Asians businessmen are world class and you aren’t going to see it. Again, it depends what you want out of your life, and what you are doing for an occupation. By all means turn yourself into a canvas, I really don’t give a shit. Maybe you’re a wiz on the computer and aren’t hired with interpersonal obligations in mind. Who knows. But by tattooing your hands, neck and face you’re lessening your chances in the corporate business world. ESPECIALLY if you write some halfwit shit across your knuckles.
This is 101 lessons in my eyes. It amazes me anybody could disagree. Just to reiterate my argument—CORPORATE PROFESSIONAL WORLD, BRO.
What I tell my students is “your appearance won’t stop you from getting A job, but it will limit your options. There goes themail whole ‘you can do anything you put your mind to’ adage you’ve been told your whole life. Why limit yourself? And it’s a little different once you have the career and know what’s acceptable, but before that you’re making it harder on yourself”
Now is the time for those blissful uppers, bro. You could have gotten your point across without sounding like an angry douchetastic father.
There there, take your meds grandpa.
It’s 2017, tattoos stopped being subversive several years ago and are slowly losing their edginess all across the globe. As an actual European citizen, visible tattoos and piercings are multiplying fast, and in the places you might come across them (read : in the more metropolitan zones, where most of the population is) it’s becoming less and less of a problem for employees. Especially in the UK, France, or Germany as far as I know (hell, the manager of the big hilfiger store of my city is a visibly tattooed former gay porn actor, fucking France man).
I mean, if you’ve never evolved outside of a myopic, lifeless workspace (like say, finance), I’m sorry for your loss, but then again don’t try to paternalize people on how the rest of the world works if you’ve never seen it for yourself.
to add to the choir: tattoos aren’t edgy (even in my little redneck corner of the country,) more and more young people (re: millennials) are choosing to skip school and become trained in a skill/make their own way. who chastises people for tattoos? I mean, yeah, if you wanna teach first grade at a catholic school, I’d rethink it, but that doesn’t really seem like the job for someone who is having STAY WILD tattooed on their fucking knuckles
i’m hungover this is fucking idiotic
I have tattoos. I’m not chastising people for tattoos on 90% of their body. I’m chastising normal folks who place them on the other 10% of their body. I don’t think they’re edgy. I just know tasteless ones (especially in plain sight) do a damn good job at ousting the retards. Specifically, tattooing “stay wild” across your knuckles, (unless they’re wealthy) is the dumbest tattoo ever. You’ll be considered a joke for life. I find it embarrassing that Coquette, the supposed “advice columnist” who is no spring chicken anymore, replied at all….but then to support a blatantly bad and overall immature decision? “fuck yea! send pics” Fucking spare me. Pathetic.
i have no tattoos
i once saw a dude with a chetah print tattoo on his face
he was swinging a sign outside of a cell phone store
“stay wild” is pretty inane
at least it’s not breath on her wrist or something
There are plenty of effective tattoo concealers available for cheap to anyone with the internet.
Gonna come out against tattoos generally. Yeah, do what you want, but if you think getting a tattoo is such a great form of art or rebellion or coolness that you want to have that one image or one phrase on your body forever, I’m gonna judge your worldview/maturity/taste. Yeah, I’m an asshole. Come at me.
As for the “stay wild” idea, know that Caribou Coffee was using that phrase to sell t-shirts this year.
As an aside, your 50k salary doesn’t mean shit. I make over 70k (alongside a couple guys who barely have a GED), which also doesn’t mean shit, and plenty of my coworkers have visible neck/face/hand tattoos.
Even in public-facing customer service jobs, you can have visible tattoos. No one cares anymore. The rare employer who might refuse to hire you based on appearance isn’t someone you’d want to work for anyway, and they’re not going to have an easy time finding someone qualified who isn’t “tarnished”.
Getting a tattoo isn’t immature. Being judgmental about someone else’s appearance, on the other hand, is.
their genetic appearance, yes.
their tasteless, ugly, poor lifelong decision, nope.
Honey, you making good money doesn’t mean you have a say in what is beautiful or tasteful. You’re american after all, take your own aesthetical considerations less seriously, trust me they’re not that good.
Eh. I can judge people all I want? Where is it written I can’t judge people? I would never not hire someone over tattoos. I would judge you though. I think tattoos are …. not art. Craft, maybe and in many cases no. Art, no. Tattoos aren’t rebellious. Do you really think that staining you skin is the best way comment on that status quo of our culture? I can think of a thousand other ways that are more creative, more effective and more original. And if you think tattoos are art, or are rebellious, than you have no taste for true art or true rebellion.
But feel free to state you case.
The first rule of art is that “true art” isn’t a thing.
Keep that in mind and maybe you’ll start having constructive thoughts worth sharing.
She’s 3 1/2. These kids grow up so fast.
Got to say, more and more I get the impression that CQ isn’t one person answering these questions and hasn’t been for some time. A 16 year old wrote in several years ago asking about a finger tattoo, the full post is titled, on stupid teenage shit. The last paragraph ended with the statement: “Whatever this word is you want forever emblazoned on your finger at sixteen, I promise, you will eventually regret it, because the whole idea is stupid and juvenile.”
Seems a bit of a juxtaposition between the responses in these two posts. I know people’s minds change as they get older but in my limited experience people become more conservative as they age not the opposite. That is, until dementia sets in, then we’re all in our second childhoods.
I don’t think that’s the case, so much as there’s a huge difference between this, which was just informing Coquette that it was going to happen, and the teenager, who was whining about not getting parental permission. The other differences is that this person said she had a favourite artist booked, which implies some level of quality (if they have an appointment set with an artist, they probably have full sleeves already, so this isn’t their first rodeo), meanwhile, that teenager didn’t have the nerve to even say what word it was she wanted on the inside of her finger. Probably “breathe” or some shit. Anyways, people mellow over time, that last ask was seven years ago.
Also someone deciding to have something tattooed related to you and coming to tell you, that’s a nice attention.
My point was more that several years ago, CQ wrote that the idea of a tattoo on someone’s finger was a stupid and juvenile idea. While I agree CQ could have mellowed with age and changed her perspective on individual’s with hand tattoos, this LW is writing in about the same thing. While this LW might have a favourite artist booked and think a knuckle tattoo isn’t going to have any repercussions in their field of work, depending on where they live in the world and if LW works in an office environment, and is, say a junior executive the knuckle tattoo might jeopardise their future prospects in that company for not exemplifying their company culture, particularly if they work in a public-facing role and if their customers are of a specific demographic. Also, in future interview situations employers make snap judgments about prospective employees and if it seemed stupid and juvenile for a 16 year old who wanted a finger tattoo, which could be explained if asked as a decision made when they were young and didn’t know any better, then, in an interview scenario, wouldn’t the tattoo seem even more stupid and juvenile for someone, potentially more mature to have CQ’s phrase, “stay wild” emblazoned across their knuckles?
It’s not Coke who magically changed her mind, it’s the status quo on tattoos that has evolved. I don’t think Coke has “mellowed” in general, it’s just her relationship to her readership that has changed. Less snark, more honesty. And the rest is us projecting.
Also I think it’s important to note that that post was several years ago. It’s possible if not likely that CT has changed her views on tattoos or simply realises the truth, which is that few people give a shit anymore.
Some jobs will care, but most won’t. Speaking from experience.
Coke likes that she’s part of people. In 2011 someone wanted to get WWCTD on their wrist and was given almost the same response “cool, send pics”
I figured she was cool with it because her ego is being boosted by this fist-based advertising. She tends to give the ‘fuck yeah’ to anyone saying something along the lines of “you’re amazing and here’s how I’m expressing my love for what you’ve done.”
However, 30 years from now we’ll find out Coke is actually James Woods wearing lingerie. In the end, we’re still going to be excited.
Inspirational quotes: give your boyfriend random stuff from Despair.com. He may catch on to the absurdity of their anti-inspirational messages.
Having taught in a wide array of institutions, it is my opinion that cheating is more common and less punished as the institutions become more elite or as students are members of certain groups. Getting away with cheating is a form if privilege, and everytime you cheat and get away with it could be a way you are using structural inequality to get ahead.
Interesting take that I didn’t consider. Thanks!
As an aside, South Korean politics be fuuucked right now.
“you won’t make the right decision as long as you’re motivated by fear and regret.”
Thank you. I really needed to hear that.
I have a fairly douchey tattoo under my collarbone. Pretty much instantly visible. I was 22 when I got it. I second Grandpa’s rant. I have a job, I like it, but I’m never going to be a woman in charge there. Everyone I remember from school or the local punk scene that covered themselves in sticknpokes? Well, look into being a hairdresser or bartender. And yes, learn how to drive a forklift.
One of my best friends is covered in stick and pokes and has a blossoming career in public health. Ever think your high school friends are just stupid?
To clarify: I don’t think riding a forklift or being a hairdresser is shitty–however, the statement I replied to implies that these are people who were unable to achieve their goals because of their tattoos. Seems like a lame excuse to fuck up.
I dunno, it sounds like there are other factors….a tattoo under the collarbone is what’s stopping you from being in charge there?
Let’s start with the biggest question: Do you think you deserve to be in charge?
Please don’t debase hairdressing or other service industry jobs as a last resort for those who can’t succeed in other fields. It takes far more skill to succeed than you’re aware of and many of us make more than you.
I mean, there must be a HUGE gap in salary (and prestige) between being a hairdresser in a small US country town and being the guy hairdressing the models at the Chanel backstage. I know some make up artists make crazy amounts of money, those kind of jobs are location and renown relative.
Hey man, don’t knock forklifts, I left my professional graphic design job of four and a half years to work in a warehouse driving a forklift. I’m in great physical shape now, and I shit you not, I make almost three times as much money.
No, that’s never occurred to me, not once. Thanks for pointing that out, Dr. Awesome.
Yeah, don’t fucking cheat in college. The worst ones are pre-med students. You want a doctor who cheated their way through school? How about an engineer who cheated on his final for the course teaching him about how to build a bridge that doesn’t collapse?
Earn it, or you don’t deserve it. Period.
Usually, your advice is right on, Coquette, but that answer sucked.
Define cheating, please.
I work at a fairly high level in my field. If I draw a blank, I look to my reference, which is always at hand. Many profs want students to cram, and then put info into a Blue Book (even in 2016) written by hand, and then nail them for spelling, which wouldn’t happen with MS Word.
Additionally, colleges cheat all the time.
EXAMPLE: at Stony Brook University in New York, there are many students from China and Southeast Asia. They’re cool people, and I even helped a few through the Sci & Tech (engineering) program, but they were practically given their graduate degrees. One classmate who I was helping learn a software program told me that she didn’t feel the program was challenging at all, and that she was not proud to be a graduate from it.
Why does Stony Brook allow these students in? Because local students pay a few grand to go while foreign students pay much more. People who shouldn’t be in the program, but who pay full price for a seat displace deserving local students.
The students are being cheated both in the classroom by a lackluster education, and then by the institution that is finding ways to fuck them ($125 plus tax to graduate!).
It’s the same in parts of the UK. When I was a home student three years ago my tuition fees for the entirety of my degree equated to 9 months of today’s tuition fees after the coalition government increased the maximum amount universities could charge. Which is funny as, at the time, one of the coalition parties (the Liberal Democrats) only received a majority of youth votes as they led a political campaign centred on social mobility and promises of if elected to office, “We’ll abolish tuition fees!!”
When I studied, 1 international student was worth the financial equivalent to the university of 3 home students’ fees, annually. Now, each home student has more debt per year than I did when I graduated and when 1 home student graduates in 2017, the university has received 4.5 x the amount they did for the same teaching, resources, facilities, etc. as they did when I studied at the same campus three years ago. Also, each graduating international student has paid an eye-watering £52,500. Essentially, double what they paid 3 years ago. So to educate 2 students, one international, one home, is now equivalent to educating 6 students (4 home, 2 international) 3 years ago. Yet, by all accounts, the numbers of students graduating haven’t fluctuated, at all. I’m not sure what they’re so keen on. The majority of my graduating class (except those whose family were wealthy, with connections who literally bought their children’s placement years through their friends’ companies and paid their child’s salaries themselves) still work in entry-level roles paying much lower than the salaries the university recruitment fairs stipulated we could get after graduating and live a quality of life that is either miserable having relocated to London, where, unfortunately, most of the jobs are, while living in a squalid, damp share house or miserable having moved back home after the costs of city-living became too exorbitant for their meagre salaries to cover their basic living costs (how anyone lives on £20,000 before outgoings in London is beyond my comprehension) and ending up back in their teenage bedrooms while searching for somewhere else to live and work so they can live instead of just surviving. I did find something humourous though, when I received a direct marketing communication last summer from my former university, which was followed up with phone calls from ‘students’ who had somehow been provided access to my and other former students’ personal information (addresses, home phone numbers) asking alumni to set up direct debits every month to donate to a scholarship fund for current students at a cost of £120 per year, per person who donated. You’d think as this university (as have many others in the UK) has quadrupled its annual income from current students, they’d be able to subsidise their scholarship program, themselves.
Oh and also, we had to pay through the nose for every part of our graduation ceremony. The amount to get to and from the ceremony by train and taxi, a place to stay overnight, the gown and cap (charged separately, of course), the cost of food and drink, the cost of allocating your family seating (limited to two people, God forbid you could have step-parents who would want to attend). It was extortion for some pomp and circumstance, plain and simple. The final amount cost so much I requested my certificate be sent through the post and I, and several of my friends, skipped our graduation ceremony. My Mum still took me to a photographic studio and had a photo in a cap and gown (which the photographer provided as a prop, no less) because she wanted one. The certificate’s gathering dust in a drawer somewhere.
Don’t change the subject. I’m talking about cheating on exams. When courses are graded on a curve, you are not only taking a grade you didn’t earn, but you are stealing a grade away from someone who earned it honestly.
As to public universities admitting full-fare foreign students over locals, if you want that to end, then pay your fucking taxes and tell your legislators to stop cutting funding to public universities.
They don’t grade on a curve where I’m writing from, I’m assuming that’s specific to the USA. Here, the assignments are submitted anonymously. Each is graded on its own merits and each segment of the assignment is scored against a grading sheet that every individual in that module is graded separately by and is provided with when they are given the assignment brief. After all the segments are tallied up, if the mark falls into a percentage category between 40-50% it’s a third class assignment, 50-60% = to a lower second 60-70% is = to an upper second 70+ is a 1st class assignment and below 40 is a fail and you have to repeat the assignment later in the year. Then, depending where you graduate, the first year assignments don’t count towards your final degree classification, the second year = 25% of marks and the third year = 75% of marks, with 50% of final year marks coming from your dissertation as it’s spread over several semesters. If you do a placement year between the second and third, you are exempt from another module in third year which also lessens your workload.
As to universities admitting full fee paying international students instead of home students, that wasn’t my point. Because they’re not full-fee paying students. If they were full fee paying students then they’d be paying the same now as they were three years ago when I was a student because home students now pay what international students used to. International students pay a premium to study here, much like a British student would if they studied their degree full time in America. Yes, part of the degree tuition is subsidised to the extent that you’re in debt from the second you start studying but you still pay that tuition fee and living allowance loan back to the government after your earnings of what used to be £15000, now £21000 with interest added. My point was that it doesn’t cost any university now, to teach 2 students the financial equivalent of teaching 6 students, three years ago, wherever they’re from.
I was responding to Chris’ comment about international students. Stony Brook is a public university in New York. I stand by my comments.
We won’t be able to agree on this topic, but I’d like to respond, knowing we can actually do so in an intelligent manner [you big doody face!]
Taxes: I live on Long Island. I’m paying plenty of taxes.
Cheating: Is it cheating when I write a term paper for $20/page, and a student accepts an A, but not when John F. Kennedy accepts the Pulitzer Prize for a book he never wrote?
Was it cheating when Dr. Thomas Stanley’s wife did all of his typing for his doctoral research, or is it different because it’s his wife, and they’re a team?
Is it cheating when I edit a dissertation (which is allowed)? What if, while editing, I add or take away some pages, creating original writing within the body of work?
Plagiarism is cheating. Turning in a term paper written for $20/page is cheating. As for typing, it’s not cheating unless the typist is also writing the dissertation. Typing from handwritten notes is not cheating. For editing, taking away some pages is not cheating, but adding significant content is.
It’s extremely clear. Do the work yourself. Grammar corrections and typing are not an essential element to the PhD. When someone else is contributing the essential elements to a work you claim credit for, it’s cheating.
As to the Pulitzer vs dissertations, universities have a precise code of ethics you are expected to follow. If Pulitzer somehow violated its own rules to give an award to JFK, that’s on them. That they may have done so does not exonerate dishonest cheaters.
Oh, and PS: don’t be lamenting locals that didn’t get into Stony Brook. Some of them actually wanted to go there and learn. Instead, some cheaty asshole took their place and paid you $20/page for their essays.
JC, I agree.
Editing that turns into a material change of the work’s nature (let’s say over 8%) would be co-writing, which, if allowed, is not cheating.
Our major disagreement is if cheating by an individual is okay.
Short answer: No.
My answer: I don’t want doctors to cheat on doctor-related studies, but don’t care if they know about iambic pentameter. Essentially, I want them to literally know an ass from an elbow.
Slippery slope. My view is that people who cheat, cheat.
Look, there is a whole “official” thread devoted to cheating on the MCATs to help your future doctor get into med school when s/he isn’t qualified. Literally the only thing they may know about anatomy is ass from elbow, which most first graders can also tell you.
Pre-meds are known to be the biggest cheaters, for whatever it’s worth. I say this as a professor with decades of teaching experience and many colleagues who will tell you the same thing. We are science profs, and we don’t teach about the iambic pentameter.
The inspirational quote response made me audibly laugh into the air. Amazing as usual.
Me too! Those type of “inspirational” quotes always make me think of the “Deep Thoughts by Jack Handy” segments on SNL, I think by Phil Hartman. Also Rob Lowe’s character on Parks & Rec.
I’m all for quotes if they’re smart, but the dumb stuff is a clue that they probably listen to dumb music and have dumb politics and read dumb books (if they read any at all) and watch dumb movies — or if they happen to like decent stuff, it’s for the wrong reasons. And I include simple-minded “positivity” and pseudo-namaste-lululemon-Buddhism in the dumb category, obviously. This hasn’t come up in my life for several years, but once I saw that side to a person, whatever hotness/drinking attraction there may have been was gone, gone, gone.
I’m not sure if we will win back the House in 2018. I’m currently reading Ken Follett’s “Century Trilogy” (just fiction, I know), and am blown away by the depiction of so many people who embrace fascism in their own land, and many more who think it’s good to be happening in other countries.
But we have to do something. I recently reached out to Senator Duckworth’s office and told her that the sooner we know she’s running in 2020, the better. I’m not a fan of many politicians, but she’s the real deal. I’d knock on 10,000 doors for her and take money out of my own pocket.
Coquette, so you’re elite, right on. But what can/do you want to do from that privilege to fight against the stale orange cheeto and the swamp vipers?
Why bother with college if you’re going to cheat? Just drop out and either go to an easier college or learn a trade (many of which pay better than you can earn with a mediocre cheated-on degree). Or take that bad grade and do better next semester. Or take time off and get your head together.
In a typical USA state-school-type university, most of the freshman- and sophomore-level classes in which one COULD cheat (i.e., big enough for a given student to be semi-anonymous) are eminently passable if you do the homework. An A-fucken-plus to continue whatever high-school-streak some precious egos are accustomed to? No, accept that C- in organic chem or whatever and keep learning; that’s where growing up comes in.
No quarter for dumb arguments about “the system.” Boo hoo. I have zero respect for cheaters — and I’m not talking about getting help or tutoring or begging for extensions or even taking speed, I’m talking about good-old-fashioned getting answers where you shouldn’t get ’em or plagiarizing or having someone else do your problem sets or write your papers. Sure there might be a 1 in 1000 circumstance, the exception to every rule, but in general: Have some fucken *personal* integrity.
Agreed. If you’re smart at all, and have the prereqs, pretty well any university class should be passable (especially when a pass is a 50) if you go to every class and do all your work. I want to make an addendum about the grey areas of using every means at your disposal. I don’t think it’s bad to do things like memorise the answers to the exam in the exam bank, if you know the prof uses the same exam every year, say. I know a lot of people who would call that cheating, but if your prof posts a resource themselves, I think it’s okay to use it. If I’ve learned anything from being a TA and grading assignments, it’s that grades are meaningless in any high granularity.
It must be nice, being so blind to the hegemony and all.
Had to look up hegemony.
To OP, it’s not about learning necessarily, but sometimes just getting that small check in a small box, like a master’s degree, which is nothing more than that.
I knew a married couple who did 2-person group projects together from start to finish in an MBA program. 2 classes a semester. 1 did 1, 1 did the other. I was proud to witness it. The school’s response? They made a new rule so it couldn’t happen again. Why? Because they’re fucking assholes.
Actually, that married couple sound like assholes. I would not be proud to witness that at all. I’m sure the school officials are assholes, too. I think most MBA programs are total bullshit, but that makes the students complicit in, not victims of, their BS. I truly don’t believe in doing a degree just to get a checkbox.
In my opinion, it’s cheaters who are the hegemony. The dishonest rule the world, and always have.
Wow. I haven’t seen that much manicheism and shoehorning in the same place since Cindefuckingrella. I wanna say well done but then again that was an insult to both our brains so I don’t feel like being ironic honestly. I’m flabbergasted.
WhoAmI: Clearly we have different first-hand experiences of who actually cheats in academic settings. In my personal observations, it is the most class-privileged, race-privileged and gender-privileged students. The cheaters I’ve observed first-hand are not by any means underdogs. (Obviously, cheating is a covert activity, and what I’ve seen may be the tip of the iceberg — who knows how much may have been invisible to me.)
To the contrary — again, in my personal experience — generally first-generation college students appreciate being there and want to learn. I was an academically unprepared scholarship student to an elite school and it never even occurred to me to cheat. I went to the tutoring center for my papers and math assignments almost every week my freshman and sophomore years, and did everything I could to quickly learn from my better prepared, more privileged peers — some of them were kind and helpful, some of them were shitheads, some of them were too busy taking drugs to be either. I didn’t know how to write like the children of professors, lawyers and kings, but with difficulty I learned. I also took some low grades along the way without acting like it was some grave injustice. I’m not saying everyone could or should do what I did, I’m just saying that the cheaters were not usually the underprivileged ones.
Again, in my original post, I said there were exceptions where I would think it would be justified according to my own code of personal integrity. Maybe those exceptions are more frequent, 1 in 100 instead of 1 in 1000. Most of the people I’ve known to do it don’t have extenuating circumstances that unfairly disadvantage them; they spent as much or even more effort cheating as it would take to pass the class honestly. They didn’t do it out of fear of disaster, but out of the pleasure of getting over. They were pricks and it was a stupid game to them, and I’m sure they went on to work in stupid corporate jobs or in evil corporate law firms while figuring out ways to screw over anyone they can, including customers, coworkers, employees, the public, etc. They’re probably getting rich on Wall Street as I type this.
It’s not more enlightened to cheat academically just because higher-ed is hegemonic or whatever. I personally don’t like academia much, for many reasons, but I’m not going to be a lying little cheat because of my disapproval and frustrations. By way of analogy, most governments are irreducibly corrupt, but I don’t cheat on my taxes, either.
I did cheat on a boyfriend, though.
Twice you’ve left a hostile comment without making a cogent counterargument. I think you probably misunderstood my point of view. I probably don’t understand yours, either.
Is this similar to our difference of opinion on ghosting?
J Lynn you areright.I find that the cheaters are the rich kids who learned all the triks along the way. They are getting everything the old fashioned way; they are sealing it
*points at two different commentators*
You’re a child for assuming that the poster worked in a field that doesn’t allow tattoos.
You’re a child for not acknowledging that most corporate jobs don’t allow visible tattoos.
Y’all just like to argue in here lol.
I have a serious problem with the word elite when it’s thrown around by hillbillies. I get the feeling that they conflate education with class. And by just looking around at how dumb some of these billionaires are, it’s just not true. You can be wicked smart, not be rich, and yet be called “elite”; just because you hate trump. Most of the hardcore scientists I know are not making bank. Especially lab researchers who pull crazy hours doing repetitive work and analysis. Definitely not “elite.” And we haven’t even hit on the topic of fame yet. “The hollywood elite.”
So from my perspective, the absurdly rich have rigged a game where one side accepts the label elite so that the other side can then attack them with that label. Intelligent people trying to stop the entire trump administration are stomped into the ground with the poor mans curse word. Then these rich fuckers pat them all on the head and take away their healthcare, education, and environmental protection.
Which side won? The elite? Sure they did, if you accept a very specific definition of the word elite.