I live in Kalamazoo, Michigan. A month ago, a friend of mine called me needing help. He was crying and emotionally unbalanced because of shit going on with his estranged wife. I went to his house and hung out with him, listened to him, let him cry, etc. I also made him give me the guns that I knew he had. I brought those guns home with me, and I still have them. I am enraged and heartbroken about the shootings that happened in my town last night. I don’t think my friend should have his guns back. But they’re his property. Can you help me through this decision-making process, please? I’d feel enormously irresponsible giving him the guns. Thank you.
This is simpler than you think. First of all, the shootings that happened in your town last night should have absolutely nothing to do with your decision. Set that horrible shit aside and focus on your friend.
Now, all you have to do is answer one question. If you give your friend his guns back, do you believe he might use them to attempt to harm himself or others?
It’s a simple yes or no question, and if the answer is yes, tell your friend sorry, but he’s not getting the guns back. Furthermore, if you think that he’s a suicide risk, get the man some fucking help.
I mean it. This shit is no joke. If you were concerned enough to take his guns away in the first place, then you should be concerned enough to make sure your friend gets in a room with a mental health professional. Hell, at this point, you’re sort of obligated.
Tell him you’ll give him his guns back as soon as his future therapist calls you up and says it’s okay to return them.
Stick to your guns on this, even though they’re not your guns.
I live here too! Heeeey. I can’t believe its two of us in the ass crack of America that read coke talk. Ok…and since I’m actually from chicago, I’m obligated to always tell everyone that I’m from chicago. So, there.
According to my analytics, I currently have 147 readers in Kalamazoo.
(Just thought you’d like to know.)
If we stop telling people we’re from Chicago, those narcissistic bastards on the coasts will forget it exists.
I live in Ann Arbor now, but hail from a small town north of Kalamazoo…nothing to do but find stuff on the internet 🙂
If this person is found with guns that aren’t registered to her/him, can’t that person get in a lot of trouble? I think holding onto them is the right thing to do, I just don’t want to see this person getting in trouble for doing the right thing, you know?
Safe deposit box?
Just looked this up. It is illegal to put firearms in safe deposit boxes. But it’s unclear to me how someone would find out.
I live and work in Michigan, and happen to do work that causes this question to come up more than it *ever* should. You, NoName, are absolutely correct. In the State of Michigan, it is very, very illegal to hold onto guns that don’t belong to you (this law varies between states).
Some alternatives for OP: Most PDs will safely store guns for individuals; If the friend happens to be a veteran, the Battle Creek VA will store the guns; a safe deposit box, as P Brightly suggested; OP can take the firing pin off the guns and hold that; OP can take friend’s ammunition.
Good luck, OP! I hope your friend is able to get the help he needs.
Since OP never mentioned whether they were worried about the friend being a danger only to himself or also to others, that’s something to take into consideration (since OP brought up the shootings as part of their concern). OP, if you think your friend may also be a danger to others, definitely do not give the guns back. Either way, get your friend help.
Excellent point. (I modified my original post to reflect it.)
I once kept a gun I did not ever shoot. It did not have a proper cartridge on it and would create squeaky noises when I pulled the trigger. What should I have done with the gun? I threw it away in the pond near my house, but I am afraid my mom will find it. She’s a qualified deep sea diver. Anyway, I only bought the gun because I thought it would look cool next to my books, but I didn’t know what I should do with such a thing. Maybe next time I will be better advised and act with more precaution.
Hah, Dear Socrates…
A therapist is not likely to ever communicate with this person about a patient.
Dear Guy Holding The Guns:
A first responder and/or an emergency service clinician RELIES on detailed information provided by concerned friends and family to quickly, accurately assess imminent risk. And an outpatient therapist who has an ongoing relationship with the patient will hear your concerns and kick it up to a supervisor. There are privacy laws specific to each state, but HIPAA allows therapists/MDs/EMS to legally accept info from friends and family…w/o patient or responsible party’s written consent, the health care provider cannot disclose information. If MD determines that your friend is competent, ask your friend to sign a release so you can be part of his care plan.
Call a local crisis center with your concerns for your friend. In Kalamazoo the 24/7 crisis # is 888-373-6200.
Dear Guy Holding The Guns:
A first responder and/or an emergency service clinician RELIES on detailed information provided by concerned friends and family to quickly, accurately assess imminent risk. And an outpatient therapist who has an ongoing relationship with the patient will hear your concerns and kick it up to a supervisor. There are privacy laws specific to each state, but HIPAA allows therapists/MDs/EMS to legally only ACCEPT info from friends and family. Without patient or responsible party’s written consent, the health care provider cannot disclose information. If MD determines that your friend is competent, ask your friend to sign a release so you can be part of his care plan.
Call a local crisis center with your concerns for your friend. In Kalamazoo the 24/7 crisis # is 888-373-6200.
I am the LW. Thank you for your advice, Coquette and commenters. Yes, I am concerned about the legality of keeping someone else’s guns. I also do NOT want them in my house. I am also concerned about the reaction from this guy when I tell him I am not giving him his guns. The logical extention of thought is this: If he’s not to be trusted with guns because he might get crazy enough to use them on people, there’s a chance he might, uh, not react well to being told I’m not giving them back to him (either because I am keeping them or because I gave them to the police). If this guy were a perfectly rational and stable person, I wouldn’t be having this Internet conversation. Taking into account the safety of my family and me, the safety of the community, the safety of this guy and this guy’s wife and kids, the fact that he has gotten therapy in the past, and the legal implications of gun ownership and possession, I am having a hard time seeing a simple solution. If anyone wants to offer further clarification (even if that means telling me I don’t need further clarification because I am overthinking this), I am listening and would greatly appreciate it.
I would suggest still going to the police with the guns and talking to them. If you truly think your friend is capable of hurting you, his family, and others, then they’ll be interested in hearing about it (and by ‘interested’ I mean they’ll look into ways of making sure he can’t hurt anyone, and/or inform you of things that can be done on your side to ensure your, his, and others’ safety). They can also help you get a writ of protection (or a restraining order, or something like that), and they *should* be able to note somewhere that if a call comes in from you and/or about your friend, they’re to take it seriously due to the report you’re making. (Whether or not something is done if that happens depends on how competent the department is, but that varies anywhere.). I’m sure you can also ask for a police presence when you tell your friend about what happened to his guns.
Just a caveat: Make sure your friend actually is a concern in that regard, and it isn’t just recent events (understandably) shaking you up. With the shooting and all, I’m almost certain police departments in the area are overloaded right now from investigating *and* from taking calls about people overly concerned about people they know…
Crackers Girl, No one here can assess the risk he poses. Do you have a relationship with his wife and have you talked to her about this? If you are afraid of what he might do, she will have seen the same instability. I think it would be good if family and friends can convince him to get help, if he’s under treatment he is not likely to ask for the guns back. If he does ask, there is a therapist who has knowledge of his state of mind and you can tell the therapist. Gives you a professional opinion that carries weight with law enforcement. I don’t know if holding the guns is illegal since he willingly gave them to you. Either way, the risk of being busted is low, unless HE reports you to the cops, (they aren’t wandering around looking for guns). If he’s already asked for the guns the cops will very likely tell you he has a right to them unless you can prove he’s dangerous.
Caveat, bare bones; My ex had a friend hold his gun for him, said person promised he would tell me if ex asked for the gun back because I was afraid ex would kill himself. Person did not tell me, ex nearly shot me. So take what I’m saying with a grain of salt, it is colored by my experience.
Classic pun. Did you giggle when you thought of it?